Wow, never thought I'd hear some Punk-Jazz on NG in my lifetime!
Utterly amazing work, people, you guys keep impressing me more and more with each release you put out! Some truly great harmonies in there, great tense atmosphere with the piano ostinato, love the small flanger effects put in there.
Flawlessly executed, with some great solos, props to Jarrod and Harry for their respective performances, same goes for James, Arlene and the guy which I'm assuming directs this page, Fabian!
There's really not much else I can say, other than I'll be sure to share to other fellow Punk-Jazz fans. Congratulations again for producing such amazing content!
Thank you so much CamoShark, your words truly mean a lot. And thank you so much for your support, you have been amazing.
I shall send out your words of kindness to the band and you are very much correct, it is I, Fabian!!
Thanks Sam once again and I hope soon we can collab in something together =)
Hey there, Divo, here's your long overdue review, like promised!
Alright, so first of all, this sounds great! Real atmospheric, definitely gives out a sense of despair and eeriness, so good job there!
So with that out of the way, let's get a bit more technical. You've got a lot of simultaneous melodies going on, and the harmony going around in there is fairly interesting, especially considering you're doing this by ear! The instrumentation used in there is also interesting, although I find there to be a bit too many bells in the song, making it a tad lacking in terms of diversity, although that's more of a personal gripe of mine.
Now the first thing I noted, and that's a tad more major here, is that I can audibly notice you recorded this off of a keyboard (most notably when the bell melodies enter at 1:44), which kind of breaks the flow of the song with some imprecise rhythms (are those supposed to be tuplets?)
Another major detail here is the ending, or lack thereof. I mean, I'm OK with minimalist endings, but the stop at 1:28 made for a more convincing ending than the actual ending, which, in of itself, only consists of a bass drum hit and everyone stopping at the same time, not to mention the rude cut at the end that completely takes you out of it. A tad lazy, if you ask me, especially considering the creativity you used throughout the song.
The only other gripe I have here, and that's really more of a personal opinion, is the drums. They're just so bland and uninspiring, and I find them to clash with the rest of the song, which had a much more eerie sound to it, instead of the rather unsubtle four on the floor that you used.
In any case, all around I was positively impressed by this song, and if you take my suggestions, I would be very interested in hearing of your future works!
Well first of all i have no Musical instruction whatsoever and English is not my main language so i have to admit i had to research the term Tuplets xD
The excess of bells is not something i thought of, but now that you mention it i have to agree that i should have added something else to mix instead of more bells.
When it comes to the Keyboard Playing i usually play keyboard and then i "fix" those notes that are noticeably out of rhythm but since i was criticized a few times before for my lack of Humanization in the piece i guess i took it too far this time and made too human xD
Most of my songs are transposed from my head to the computer by Keyboard, not by the "laws" of music, i usually keep it simple in a 4/4 tempo but i wanted to innovate on this one so i chose a different time signature and as you can see had some problems improvising in it, so i have no clue if i used tuplets or not i just played what i heard in my head xD
The ending i must admit that i have not noticed that it had a cut in it, i hate cuts too :S And the ending itself is another aspect im working on my next songs.
Reviews like yours are the ones that make me a better musician and i will absolutely try to follow your advises!
First thing I'd like to note, the mix is awesome, although that's hardly surprising considering the work you did on my track! We can clearly hear every voice, the singer, albeit occasionally a bit flat, has a wonderful voice, and you show that you definitely have some skills on that guitar.
Now for the song itself. It's important to take into consideration that I'm hardly familiar with the genre, but from what I can hear, the only major complaint I have is that the song is lacking in highs. I think it's got to do with your guitar tone, since it seems to be lacking in upper harmonics. As of right now, the entire song sounds very small and compact, so that might be something that needs to be addressed in future songs.
The only other complaint I have was already mentioned in Step's post, so I won't bother going into detail over it, but that ending is quite anticlimactic and fishtailed. Might just be a personal thing, but I think it was a tad too minimalist, and perhaps a tad lazy.
In any case, that's pretty much all I have to say! One major gripe and a more personal one, but marvelously executed, so all around great track!
Hehe thanks for the honest review. The ending was actually was semi intentional, I didn't think it was too bad but I guess that is just personal taste.
I'm sorry, but I cannot let this slide. I'm sorry but there's so much wrong with this track I don't even know where to start.
First of all, lemme break it to you: this is unquestionably CLASSIC ROCK, NOT JAZZ. There is not even ONE element in this track that could even remotely be considered anything close to Jazz, and no, including a saxophone in your track doesn't magically make it so.
Secondly, this has got to be one of the most poorly produced tracks I have ever listened to. I mean, the effort is commendable, but in the end the song makes me physically sick to hear. the background elements are about 50% lower in volume from the rest of the track, the female singer's volume is MUCH higher that her male counterpart, no instrument has the same amount of reverb, and don't even get me started on THAT GODDAMN AWFUL SAX.
Not only is it completely off-pitch, but for an instrument that's literally in the title, it's played like the player is 8 years old. It sounds like he only knows ONE scale, and doesn't even know that one that well, with the occasional wrong note. I'm sorry, but when you base your song entirely on telling me how good your sax is, I expect a minimal level of experience on the instrument from the player.
Third, how is there no drums in this track? I mean I'm really not the guy that can't listen to a track if there aren't drums, far from it, but seeing as this is a standard Classic Rock song, and there's a steady rhythmic pattern installed already, I don't see why this wasn't included other than the fact you might not have had a drummer available.
Lastly, while I do appreciate the singers' performance, I couldn't decipher half of what they were saying because of the mix. Written lyrics could/should have been put in the author comments, if only to understand what the hell was going on.
In any case, sorry if I sound a bit harsh, but production is, to my eyes, essential in the creative development of a song, and I'm also very critical when it comes to Jazz. Hope you learn from what I wrote and that you'll improve in the future, as it could improve your sound tenfold!
Samuel, hi, thanks for your in-depth review of the track, it's much appreciated. I appreciate the constructive criticism, and that you took time to do this, rather than just slate the whole track. I agree about the sax, and the mix. Though I'm a fairly successful pianist, I don't tend to delve into 'jazz' much (or classic rock as you stated), so this is definitely a learning curve. I have to admit, the sole thing I contributed to this piece was the piano, and since you didn't mention that, I'll just believe that it was alright, hah.
I'm usually not a low voter, in fact, this is probably the lowest rating I've ever given to a submition.
But there IS a reason why I'm giving this such a low score, and that is that this is pretty aweful.
First of all, this song is nowhere anything NEAR classical music, or even neo-orchestral film music stuff you hear today. THIS IS POP MUSIC, AND NOTHING ELSE!
The only "orchestral" elements that could possibly exist in this song would be the "flute", if you could even call it that, and the things that try to look like strings.
The chord progression is pop, and even then, it fails to even BE a progression, because of the occasional drum breaks in the middle breaking the structure.
The flute barely manages to play the tonics, OVER AND OVER AGAIN, and still manages to do occasional off key "harmonisation".
The drums are saddeningly bad, alternating between random fills and aweful accompaniment. THE ACCENTS GO ON THE 2's AND 4's, NOT THE 1's AND 3's!
The string are probaly the only part on wich I'll accord points. I like the harmonisation you chose, and the occasional tensions reated by keeping the previous chord's notes were pretty tasty, though occasional tensions didn't
fit.
I'm sorry if this critic seems hard, but being under the classical category, and having 22 votes and a score of 4.54, I feel like I had to judge your song as hard as a regular classical composition.
Please don't take this personaly, I just hope you'll get a lesson from this and take a bit of time understanding what you did wrong.
Cheers,
Samuel Hébert
P.S. PM me if you need any more detailing on improvable parts in your song.
thanks for the review. it was just a test really. I have no idea why i put it in classical, if anything i would have put it under misc... sorry on my part. thanks again.
Thank you for putting such a great recording of one of my favorite songs ever on Newgrounds.
I seriously wasn't expecting anything like this when you said you were going to do modal jazz. I thought you'd go with something cheesy like Blue in Green, or something like Maiden Voyage.
I will most likely make myself a little solo out of this recording, given that I now have proper software and hardware. Wich me luck, I'll send you a PM when it's done!
Wow, I'm flabergasted by what I'm hearing, I honestly wasn't expecting something nearly as good when I clicked your link on the RRC!
It's got a classic 80's feel with the sound quality and the choice of instruments, I wouldn't have chosen the pan flute for this, but it does really give a clear refference to that era.
Speaking of wich I should mention that the song is awefully similar to Vangelis' style, more precisely this very song : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYeDsa 4Tw0c
I guess it's ok, just sayin', and it IS one of Justin's favorite composers afterall...
Next on the list is the most evident I believe, The song either ends too abrubtly or, in my opinion, is simply not long enough. The last idea you had was great and could have been much more developped, perhaps by adding more instruments, mostly brass (but then that's just my biased opinion :P) to really bring the song to a climax.
But as a concession to that very thesis, I've got alot to learn from you in orchestration, as you've mastered the art of manipulating themes in such ways that you can use a basic melody and devellope it through an array of instruments.
I myself am going to get myself a book on the subject you might be interested in, Samuel Adler's Study for Orchestration, wich explains in detail everything you need to know about every orchestral instrument and theoretical composing.
Second to last point: Choice of instruments. While most of your choices I approved, some are in my opinion open for discussion, and I'm mostly speaking about the pan flute.
I'm thinking that you enjoy the pan flute (having put some in our collab), and I'm fine with that, but I find it's use in this song a bit incoherent, in the way that the approach you used felt more like one of a normal flute, wich then have been much more lyrical, instead of the straightforward approach of the pan flute.
The instrument that most tired me thought is the "exotic drums" you used. Being a latin drummer myself (amongst a few other things), it really tires me to hear the western conception of that very drumming, and I can't help but feel the need to make them take consciouseness of their misconceptions.
the djembe sounds you use are used as tenor drums, and the bongos are used as high-pitched drum-rolls, and are simply not used at their full potentials.
You can always PM me (or just call me, you know the drill) if you want any info, I'd be glad to help!
And finally, last point : choice of chords. I must say, never in my life would I have thought the most overused chord progression in the last 40 years could possibly sound so fresh used in a completely different context! Seriously, if it wasn't for the fact that guitars plucked those chords in the beggining, I would never have thought it out, and overall it simply sounds great.
Still, it really is the most overused chord structure ever used, so I don't really suggest straying along those lines for too long, espetially considering the classical nature of the song.
Wow, that was a ridiculously long review that lasted my entire evening... Oh well, gotta love helping out fellow composers, and YOU are most certainly worth that time!
Once again, congratulations for making such a great track, and work on those endings!
Wow dude, this is one of the largest reviews I've ever received. That makes two massive reviews after one day. That's awesome, so THANKS!
I'd do my usual 'quote paragraph 1 - respond - quote paragraph 2 - respond' style of responding to reviews but your review is just too darn big :P. I'll quote certain parts of it then...
OK... so... where to start.
...
That's not how you spell flabbergasted xD.
But thanks. I rarely request in the club but when I do I make sure it's one of my best.
"I wouldn't have chosen the pan flute for this"
Yeah, that's the thing... Some people like the pan flute in here and some people don't. I pretty much only used it to carry a melody in certain parts and since I use flutes too much I thought it's a good idea to go for a pan flute instead :P. In any case I can't really change anything in this song because I lost the project file, even though all of these helpful reviews are making my gut instincts literally scream at me to edit this track.
"Speaking of wich I should mention that the song is awefully similar to Vangelis' style"
Cool, I'm being compared to Vangelis :D.
Yeah I noticed the approach is quite similar actually.
"The song either ends too abrubtly or, in my opinion, is simply not long enough."
I agree that it definitely needs to be longer, but hey, Echo and I had to make this for a game which required like 20-30 songs like this so cut us some slack xP. I ended it like that because I had to make it loop with the ambiance at the beginning, and I couldn't think of any other way, except by just slapping on a fade-out.
"perhaps by adding more instruments, mostly brass"
Psh, says the trumpet player :P.
"I've got alot to learn from you in orchestration, as you've mastered the art of manipulating themes in such ways that you can use a basic melody and devellope it through an array of instruments."
That's exactly what makes this song stand out from my other songs in my opinion. It's a good thing Echo and I used so many instruments to keep the melody going or this would no doubt become repetitive.
"While most of your choices I approved, some are in my opinion open for discussion, and I'm mostly speaking about the pan flute."
Yeah, the pan flute... I think some people might not like it because of the sample we used. I have a better sample as a soundfont and an even better one in Ethnoworld 3, but like I said, I can't really edit this track :C.
"the approach you used felt more like one of a normal flute"
I see what you mean. Generally whether I'm using a flute or a pan flute I still compose the same way, which is a bad habit I guess lol.
"The instrument that most tired me thought is the "exotic drums" you used."
Yeah I'm no export at using exotic drums and all that stuff. I'll have to message you on MSN (if I ever find the time to sign in...) so you can help me out on that, if it's OK with you.
"I must say, never in my life would I have thought the most overused chord progression in the last 40 years could possibly sound so fresh used in a completely different context!"
Haha, it was Echo who wanted to use that chord progression. He was all excited because we managed to make an overused chord progression fit well in a song like this, and whenever we joke around and I tell him that it was my editing which made the song so good he'd say 'no it wasn't, it's my chord progression' xD.
But OK I have to admit that if it wasn't for Echo this wouldn't be nearly as good as it is.
"Still, it really is the most overused chord structure ever used, so I don't really suggest straying along those lines for too long"
Got it, I'll keep that in mind.
"Wow, that was a ridiculously long review that lasted my entire evening..."
Wow man, I really appreciate that. Thanks!
"Once again, congratulations for making such a great track, and work on those endings!"
Will do. Thanks a million for such an awesome review, I'll keep all of your suggestions in mind! Thanks again!
Oh and in case you didn't get the five times I already told it to you, THANKS!! :D.
You have listened to alot of Steve Reich, I believe! I especially find alot of resemblance with his song Electric Counterpoints... I guess minimalism, has to be a bit repetitive at some point XP.
As for the composition itself, I firmly believe even if the whole point of minimalisme is to transmute a repetition of notes into some sort of ambience, there should still be some sort of variaty, just so the background doesn't stagnate.
Anyways, I understand your work, and I'm glad the portal has someone like you to push the AP into a more modern era!
Thanks for review.
I think trumpet would fit there very good, I even plan to record one, but the main reason of making this is to provide a backing track for others to put their solos :)
I look forward to hear your solo.
Still Alive (Portal) 
March of the Damned 
Jonas Wasilco~Din of War 
Plains Theme 